Jack Murtha has died, following complications from surgery for gall-bladder issues. As I said last week, I wasn’t a fan of him as a politician but hoped he’d get better.
Jack Murtha, Vietnam veteran, long-time Representative PA-12, Appropriator extraordinaire, RIP.
Rojas, this is just another case of the death redemption George Carlin referred to in his bit about how douchebags like ol’ Jack are suddenly viewed wistfully post dirt nap.
“Yeah, poor Bill, poor Bill is dead, yeah.”
“Poor Dave, yeah, poor Dave is gone now.”
“Ed, yeah, poor Ed is gone too.”
“What about Dan?”
“Dan? Nah, that motherfucker is still alive.”
Me? I just call ‘em like I see ‘em. Buh bye, Jack. I’ll miss you like a stomach pump.
No, I think this is just another case of the theater of partisanship rising above the level of, say, basic humanity.
Jack Murtha was, by all accounts, a terrific father (three kids), loving husband (married 55 years to the same woman), a self-made man (Eagle scout in high school, first business was running a car wash, went to Pitt on the GI Bill), he became a terrific soldier (was a Marine in the 50s, then drill instructor, before his tour was up) then volunteered, 10 years out of service, to serve in Vietnam, where he got two purple hearts, a silver star, the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, and retired as a colonel with the Navy Distinguished Service Medal), and was the first Vietnam vet in Congress, where he did a helluva lot of good (if you’ll remember, Vietnam vets didn’t have an easy way in the veteran community—Murtha, as much as anybody, was responsible for changing that). He was a long time representative, an outstanding voice for the military (even if you didn’t agree with him, he was one of the very first that had the guts to speak out against the War in Iraq from the military perspective, to address body armor and equipment issues, to protest stop-loss measures, etc.) and say what you will of him, he was one of those guys that went into public service for the right reasons, and mostly stayed there for the same.
He was certainly an earmark guy, but then again so is Ron Paul, for much the same reasons. Murtha’s views seemed to be that it was his job to represent and benefit his district, even if, in the grand scheme of things, that came at the expense of other districts (ones he didn’t represent). That’s obnoxious political behavior, and there are a few (alleged, never proven, and probably not illegal anyway) other ethics wrinkles, and all of that deserves mention, but none of that really informs whether he was a good or bad person or whether society is better or worse off for his passing. As much as anybody can hope to answer questions like that, I think he was a good man, and I think that he served his country about as wholly as a person could. America would be a better place with more guys like Jack Murtha, frankly, and less anonymous cynics who mistake political views they disagree with with dehumanizing black marks on a person’s soul.
I don’t know that America suffers from a lack of cynicism at the moment. We could do with more cynicism, at least more EFFECTIVE cynicism.
I’d just rather we weren’t openly celebrating the extinction of our political opponents. I said the same when my collegiate fellows openly celebrated the death of Alan Bloom, and when the left danced on the grave of Jerry Falwell.
It’s the kind of cynicism that annoys me, not the mere fact that it’s cynicism. PRODUCTIVE cynicism is fine. James’ doesn’t strike me as that, in this case.
Also, the idea that now earmarks is a “making the world a worse place” offense on the level of rendering a person’s life worthless and their death a happy event strikes me as a little…unhinged.
How much to you have to be drinking partisan Republican Kool Aid to believe that? I’m sure the reaction would be similar if Nancy Pelosi died, who is an equally good person and committed public servant and whose chief sin is believing in a political ideal different from 33% of the American public. I’ll take well-meaning public servants of any ideology over blindly following partisans who have lost all perspective and drip with almost arbitrary cynical spite any day.
Brad, were you the fellow that when Tony Snow stepped down as GW Bush’s Press Secretary due to his health commented that he did so “to spend more time with his cancer?”
While I can respect Murtha’s military service, I don;t consider that a “get out of jail free” card. He was a whore (as are many others for whom I will not mourn). Being dead doesn’t change that other than the fact he can turn no more tricks.
I meant what I said and I am unapologetic. If that is a bad cynicism, then I am guilty as charged. I prefer to think of it as reality sans the frosting of crocodile tears. I’ll leave it at that. Sue me.
I sure was that guy. Hey, I’m a fan of tasteless jokes (I thought of that more as a fark headline than an actual commentary), but I don’t think anybody would mistake that for me, personally and actually, being glad Tony Snow had cancer—if they did, I am happy to correct them (and would have been then too). You weren’t really making a joke, you were expressing an opinion.
And again, if earmarks is something that makes an otherwise dedicated public servant, good man, and civicly-minded human being not worth life—if appropriating maybe .003% of the federal budget over the course of his Congressional career to projects in his district quite literally nullifies all those other characteristics—than I think that says a lot more about you than he. Don’t get me wrong, I think that qualifies as a voting issue. I would vote against him for that reason. But that’s a damn far cry from wishing him dead.
Hey, Murtha was a crook who also used earmarks and ran interference (most recently, for Boeing) to buy re-election with money that is effectively taken from all of us down the barrel of a gun. I wanted him voted out, not dead, but I don’t think that there’s much mileage in pursuing the defence that he was a dedicated public servant.
You guys kinda had me onboard until you tossed off the “left danced on the grave of Jerry Falwell” which had two errors: classifying those of us dancing as all on the left, and portaring it as a bad thing. I can reserve some judgement on Murtha, respecint Brad’s life consolidation in #5, but Falwell? An unmitigated toad. A con artist, a forever liar, a complete and utter bastard. Fuck him. Without a clerical collar hes just another fringe wacko.
And I don’t gladly consign fringe wackos to the great beyond. Not Falwell, not Fred Phelps. I cannot bring myself to wish the prospect of extinction on anyone, nor that kind of pain on their survivors.
Jumpin’ Jesus on a pogo stick. I’m the outlier once again…and this time, it’s because I decline to openly celebrate the deaths of my political opponents.
The constant inaccuracy of my political predictions is becoming more and more understandable; it seems that the popular mood is something which I will never quite be able to fathom. Not, perhaps, a good quality in a political analyst.
You only wish you could be an outlier, Rojas. Brad is clearly on your side. Adam’s OP seems clearly in your camp. Thimbles, by his #3 comment, is on your side. I guess James and I should be please that disagreement with us makes you fringe. All hail the J-Squared consensus!
Sorry, but it seems hard to sympathize with the death of someone who advocated the “Kill them all, in the name of the Lord” sentiment. This was a guy who red-baited MLK because he demanded the right to drink from every water fountain. People murdered on account of his words. I didn’t wish him dead, but I didn’t empathize with his loss.
I don’t empathize with Charles Manson either, so I’m consistent.
I’m late, but I’ll also chime in that Falwell wasn’t a loss in any sense of the word. Nor was he actually a politician despite his meddling in such, he was a religious idiot on par with any islamoterrorist, and therefore the only thing to mourn about his death is that the US Army didn’t facilitate it about 20 years ago with explosives.
I wasn’t a fan of him as a politician and hoped he’d get worse. I guess someone is listening to me more than you.
Comment by James — 2/8/2010 @ 5:18 pm
Not cool, James. Your gall bladder appears to be functioning all too well.
Comment by Rojas — 2/8/2010 @ 6:17 pm
Some people, like James, have a lot of gall. Others, like Jack Murtha, no longer have any.
Whatever his faults, and he was a corrupt son of a bitch so his faults were many, Jack did care about the troops.
Funny how he became a “true villain” to the GOP only after expressing that.
Comment by thimbles — 2/9/2010 @ 3:36 am
Rojas, this is just another case of the death redemption George Carlin referred to in his bit about how douchebags like ol’ Jack are suddenly viewed wistfully post dirt nap.
“Yeah, poor Bill, poor Bill is dead, yeah.”
“Poor Dave, yeah, poor Dave is gone now.”
“Ed, yeah, poor Ed is gone too.”
“What about Dan?”
“Dan? Nah, that motherfucker is still alive.”
Me? I just call ‘em like I see ‘em. Buh bye, Jack. I’ll miss you like a stomach pump.
Comment by James — 2/9/2010 @ 4:16 pm
No, I think this is just another case of the theater of partisanship rising above the level of, say, basic humanity.
Jack Murtha was, by all accounts, a terrific father (three kids), loving husband (married 55 years to the same woman), a self-made man (Eagle scout in high school, first business was running a car wash, went to Pitt on the GI Bill), he became a terrific soldier (was a Marine in the 50s, then drill instructor, before his tour was up) then volunteered, 10 years out of service, to serve in Vietnam, where he got two purple hearts, a silver star, the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, and retired as a colonel with the Navy Distinguished Service Medal), and was the first Vietnam vet in Congress, where he did a helluva lot of good (if you’ll remember, Vietnam vets didn’t have an easy way in the veteran community—Murtha, as much as anybody, was responsible for changing that). He was a long time representative, an outstanding voice for the military (even if you didn’t agree with him, he was one of the very first that had the guts to speak out against the War in Iraq from the military perspective, to address body armor and equipment issues, to protest stop-loss measures, etc.) and say what you will of him, he was one of those guys that went into public service for the right reasons, and mostly stayed there for the same.
He was certainly an earmark guy, but then again so is Ron Paul, for much the same reasons. Murtha’s views seemed to be that it was his job to represent and benefit his district, even if, in the grand scheme of things, that came at the expense of other districts (ones he didn’t represent). That’s obnoxious political behavior, and there are a few (alleged, never proven, and probably not illegal anyway) other ethics wrinkles, and all of that deserves mention, but none of that really informs whether he was a good or bad person or whether society is better or worse off for his passing. As much as anybody can hope to answer questions like that, I think he was a good man, and I think that he served his country about as wholly as a person could. America would be a better place with more guys like Jack Murtha, frankly, and less anonymous cynics who mistake political views they disagree with with dehumanizing black marks on a person’s soul.
Comment by Brad — 2/9/2010 @ 5:07 pm
I don’t know that America suffers from a lack of cynicism at the moment. We could do with more cynicism, at least more EFFECTIVE cynicism.
I’d just rather we weren’t openly celebrating the extinction of our political opponents. I said the same when my collegiate fellows openly celebrated the death of Alan Bloom, and when the left danced on the grave of Jerry Falwell.
Comment by Rojas — 2/9/2010 @ 5:30 pm
It’s the kind of cynicism that annoys me, not the mere fact that it’s cynicism. PRODUCTIVE cynicism is fine. James’ doesn’t strike me as that, in this case.
Also, the idea that now earmarks is a “making the world a worse place” offense on the level of rendering a person’s life worthless and their death a happy event strikes me as a little…unhinged.
How much to you have to be drinking partisan Republican Kool Aid to believe that? I’m sure the reaction would be similar if Nancy Pelosi died, who is an equally good person and committed public servant and whose chief sin is believing in a political ideal different from 33% of the American public. I’ll take well-meaning public servants of any ideology over blindly following partisans who have lost all perspective and drip with almost arbitrary cynical spite any day.
Comment by Brad — 2/9/2010 @ 6:04 pm
Brad, were you the fellow that when Tony Snow stepped down as GW Bush’s Press Secretary due to his health commented that he did so “to spend more time with his cancer?”
While I can respect Murtha’s military service, I don;t consider that a “get out of jail free” card. He was a whore (as are many others for whom I will not mourn). Being dead doesn’t change that other than the fact he can turn no more tricks.
I meant what I said and I am unapologetic. If that is a bad cynicism, then I am guilty as charged. I prefer to think of it as reality sans the frosting of crocodile tears. I’ll leave it at that. Sue me.
Comment by James — 2/9/2010 @ 7:06 pm
I sure was that guy. Hey, I’m a fan of tasteless jokes (I thought of that more as a fark headline than an actual commentary), but I don’t think anybody would mistake that for me, personally and actually, being glad Tony Snow had cancer—if they did, I am happy to correct them (and would have been then too). You weren’t really making a joke, you were expressing an opinion.
And again, if earmarks is something that makes an otherwise dedicated public servant, good man, and civicly-minded human being not worth life—if appropriating maybe .003% of the federal budget over the course of his Congressional career to projects in his district quite literally nullifies all those other characteristics—than I think that says a lot more about you than he. Don’t get me wrong, I think that qualifies as a voting issue. I would vote against him for that reason. But that’s a damn far cry from wishing him dead.
Comment by Brad — 2/9/2010 @ 8:20 pm
Hey, Murtha was a crook who also used earmarks and ran interference (most recently, for Boeing) to buy re-election with money that is effectively taken from all of us down the barrel of a gun. I wanted him voted out, not dead, but I don’t think that there’s much mileage in pursuing the defence that he was a dedicated public servant.
Comment by Adam — 2/9/2010 @ 8:50 pm
Life is a joke to me, Brad. You should know that by now.
And I hear ya, Adam. Death is, however, the ultimate electoral defeat, no?
Comment by James — 2/9/2010 @ 9:08 pm
Just ask John Ashcroft… No wait…bad choice.
Comment by thimbles — 2/9/2010 @ 10:32 pm
You guys kinda had me onboard until you tossed off the “left danced on the grave of Jerry Falwell” which had two errors: classifying those of us dancing as all on the left, and portaring it as a bad thing. I can reserve some judgement on Murtha, respecint Brad’s life consolidation in #5, but Falwell? An unmitigated toad. A con artist, a forever liar, a complete and utter bastard. Fuck him. Without a clerical collar hes just another fringe wacko.
Comment by Jack — 2/9/2010 @ 11:25 pm
And I don’t gladly consign fringe wackos to the great beyond. Not Falwell, not Fred Phelps. I cannot bring myself to wish the prospect of extinction on anyone, nor that kind of pain on their survivors.
Jumpin’ Jesus on a pogo stick. I’m the outlier once again…and this time, it’s because I decline to openly celebrate the deaths of my political opponents.
The constant inaccuracy of my political predictions is becoming more and more understandable; it seems that the popular mood is something which I will never quite be able to fathom. Not, perhaps, a good quality in a political analyst.
Comment by Rojas — 2/9/2010 @ 11:45 pm
You only wish you could be an outlier, Rojas. Brad is clearly on your side. Adam’s OP seems clearly in your camp. Thimbles, by his #3 comment, is on your side. I guess James and I should be please that disagreement with us makes you fringe. All hail the J-Squared consensus!
Comment by Jack — 2/10/2010 @ 12:21 am
Sorry, but it seems hard to sympathize with the death of someone who advocated the “Kill them all, in the name of the Lord” sentiment. This was a guy who red-baited MLK because he demanded the right to drink from every water fountain. People murdered on account of his words. I didn’t wish him dead, but I didn’t empathize with his loss.
I don’t empathize with Charles Manson either, so I’m consistent.
Comment by thimbles — 2/10/2010 @ 12:30 am
Wait, I’m confused. thimbles you are the same thimbles as the thimbles in #3, right? So in #16, are you talking about Murtha or Falwell?
Comment by Jack — 2/10/2010 @ 12:44 am
Falwell should have died sooner. Come to think of it, Ted Kennedy and Murtha should have too. Better late than never.
Comment by James — 2/10/2010 @ 12:51 am
Thimbles wants every American to die, Jack.
Comment by James — 2/10/2010 @ 12:52 am
You’ll get a hint about 1:40 in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY71nzkZHKQ
Murtha lined his and his constituients’ pockets. Falwell was a force for ignorance, jingoism, and hate in the name of the Christian God.
He turned politics into a sacrament and he is as responsible as any for the frequent demonization of one’s political enemies in American politics.
I didn’t wish neither of them dead, but if I was given a choice between the two… I think it’s obvious to most who would have been the better pick.
Comment by thimbles — 2/10/2010 @ 5:27 am
The answer to the “who’s the better pick for dying” being James, of course. In case you were one of those who were wondering.
Comment by thimbles — 2/10/2010 @ 5:30 am
Hey, thimbles, Murtha helped fund and equip the American war machine you love so much.
Comment by Adam — 2/10/2010 @ 10:05 am
Guns don’t kill people. Bullets do, in the name of the Lord.
Comment by thimbles — 2/10/2010 @ 11:30 am
I’m late, but I’ll also chime in that Falwell wasn’t a loss in any sense of the word. Nor was he actually a politician despite his meddling in such, he was a religious idiot on par with any islamoterrorist, and therefore the only thing to mourn about his death is that the US Army didn’t facilitate it about 20 years ago with explosives.
Comment by Eric — 2/10/2010 @ 7:09 pm
Let’s face it people; Murtha? Falwell? Same guy. He’s dead and we are glad. End of story.
Comment by James — 2/11/2010 @ 1:55 am