Comments on: Sea Stories: You seem a bit obsessed. Is there something you want to tell us?

By: Rojas

Rojas — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 03:41:26 +0000

He’s still around; commenting in other threads. And quite a quality addition.

By: Jack

Jack — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 22:24:14 +0000

jlxn,
I hope you are still around, I apologize for not responding earlier, I missed your comment. Two things:
1. Please look into applying to the Navy Board of Corrections regarding your characterization of discharge. Under the current policy, characterization is based on nature service, without prejudice as to the reason for discharge. (I recognize that there may be a diff between how it is supposed to be and how it is). It it is my understanding that a pre-DADT discharges can be upgraded based on the current policy. I would def look into it, perhaps contact the Palm Center for guidance.
2. OK, my “DADT was a reasonable compromise” sentence was inartful. DADT, at the time, was probably the best Clinton could do and still retain what he believed was enough capital to accomplish some of his other goals. But it was still unfair,and reenforced and perpetuated a negative vew, and I am ashamed of the military for having not simply lifted it. That the Democratic Party, in charge of both houses, has not corrected it is cowardly, particularly while Hillary was on the Defense Armed Services Committe.

By: jlxn

jlxn — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:32:13 +0000

I can identify with the sailor in your second story. I grew up religious and was in the Army for 5 years, made E-5 within the first three, and in the second year of my re-enlistment, 1981, I was discharged for homosexuality after trying to kill myself and it was reported to my CO that I was having a sexual identity crisis.

It is a pretty tough experience to go through, especially if your have problems accepting who you are. I told my friends and family that I was booted for drug abuse. After all, a junkie is better than a queer, right?

I was lucky enough to find an employer who for whatever reason believes that asking about your military service is discriminatory. So I didn’t have to go through the hell of having to explain that situtation one more time. I swear I think some of the HR people just had me in for interviews to question me about that part of my work history.

I really loved serving in the Army would have liked nothing more to have been able to serve until I retired as you did.

I cannot tell you how disappointed I was when DADT went into effect in 1993. Lifting the ban as Clinton wanted to do may have given me the opportunity to earn an honorable discharge and right, what I see as a terrible wrong which has haunted me for many years.

Really, a not so reasonable compromise.

By: Jack

Jack — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 14:30:24 +0000

Rojas, my bad for making this sound more melodramitc than I intended. It is not a matter of “not challenging superiors” and throwing myself on a sword, or anything with a whiff of martyrdom. Peers or superiors, for years I was unwilling to state my beliefs on this subject for fear of the negative perception that might generate. There is a difference between foolishly demanding a change in policy or I will resign, dagnabit, and simply saying, in the course of wardroom conversation, when the sujbect comes up: “Certainly we all have naval and military policies with which we disagree, for me, DADT tops that list.”

By: Rojas

Rojas — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:41:56 +0000

Jack, I really don’t think you have to apologize for not challenging your superiors about policy matters during your active career. I’ve long been a strong advocate of the repeal of DADT, but even I’m not interested in seeing active duty personnel contest the policy openly. I’d rather see them be as supportive of their gay shipmates as possible without posing specific policy challenges that could be seen as insubordinate.

That said, I am certainly glad of your growth on the issue, and I am saddened by your stories on the issue.

By: Liz

Liz — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 01:36:18 +0000

Great post Jack.

My old roommate was caught up in DADT a few years ago. They actually tried to give her an OTH, but a really good DADT advocacy group in DC intervened. She was still forced out, but at least her discharge was honorable. It is completely the service’s loss; she was a great officer.

Admiral Larson was my Sup too my plebe and youngster years.

By: Jack

Jack — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 01:25:38 +0000

Ha! Very appropriate clip, Cameron. As to your question, I was contrarion independent with no consistant ideological perspective. If the present company waxed nostaligic for Reagan, I might secretly agree, but would talk of Iran-Contra. If they dismissed the criticisms (and excesses) of Clinton, I would speak glowingly of the character of Carter, despite his faults. In short, I was a walking troll.

By: Cameron

Cameron — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 01:08:07 +0000

Awesome post. What were you before you self identified as a libertarian? If you eventually worked your way towards that perspective via civil issues, what were you during and before that transition, if anything? As for your search engine hook, there's this great scene from the Arrested Development finale that seems appropriate.