Biden Time
Post your thoughts here.
Right off the bat: my concern is, with the announcement timing, he blew a lot of good material accepting the VP nod. If you didn’t get a chance to see Obama announcing him and Biden accepting, it’s good stuff, you can find it here.
I also expect that he goes hard against McCain and the Republicans. I hope so, anyway, as it’s about damn time for this convention to do so. A Zell Meller-esque speech out of Biden tonight would not be inappropriate.
Bill Richardson to do the lead-in, followed by Beau, the DE attorney general son and head of the DE national guard who is going to Iraq. Never seen him before, so sort of interested.
Comment by Brad — 8/27/2008 @ 10:04 pm
Your plagarism is not lost upon me.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:28 pm
I like Beau, but all I could think of as I watched him and heard the musical bump after was “The 40 Year Old Virgin”
Sue me.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:31 pm
No one could leave Biden speechless.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:32 pm
There it is again. Clintons have been mentioned more than Obamas I think.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:33 pm
Trying to soothe ruffled feathers, I think.
It’s overkill though.
Comment by Liz — 8/27/2008 @ 10:34 pm
Biden is awesome.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:37 pm
He is a storyteller at heart I think.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:37 pm
I still say this ticket is ass-backwards.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:39 pm
OMG! The slogans!
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:45 pm
I agree, James. I even kind of like Biden–even though I disagree with him on a lot, he doesn’t really scare me like Obama.
Comment by Laura — 8/27/2008 @ 10:45 pm
Biden has been assimilated.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:46 pm
He was doing so well until he started printing bumper stickers.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:47 pm
Barack will save us–he is a god.
Comment by Laura — 8/27/2008 @ 10:47 pm
He is really good.
This is late, but I want to hug his mom. I was trying to figure out why, but then I realized that she reminds me of my grandmothers (working class and Irish Catholic). It was a touching story, but, I think, entirely calculted to tug at the heartstrings of those of us who heard their own moms in those stories.
Comment by Liz — 8/27/2008 @ 10:48 pm
Is he ready now, Joe?
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:50 pm
Obama will have a hard act to follow this week and from here on.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:51 pm
For all the talk about Obama’s rhetorical style, I find Biden far more convincing–in part because it’s obvious that he knows what he’s talking about–that he could be speaking extemporaneously as well as from a prepared script. And there’s something “real” about him. And I agree about his mom–she reminds me of one of my grandmothers, too.
Comment by Laura — 8/27/2008 @ 10:51 pm
This is analogous to JFK/LBJ in ‘60, maybe: slick young Senator names experienced older Senator–one who is actually probably more qualified to serve.
Comment by Laura — 8/27/2008 @ 10:53 pm
Yuck–Obama just gave Biden’s wife a full lip-kiss!
Comment by Laura — 8/27/2008 @ 10:55 pm
Great theater!
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:56 pm
Anticlimactic.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:57 pm
He just sucked his own wind.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:57 pm
He is now a tour guide.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 10:58 pm
Yeah, you know, I think this would have ended better had they just let it close with Biden.
Comment by Laura — 8/27/2008 @ 11:01 pm
I think the walk-on was great, though it was more for the convention participants than the TV audience.
Comment by Brad — 8/27/2008 @ 11:03 pm
I liked seeing him, but I like Obama.
Comment by Liz — 8/27/2008 @ 11:05 pm
I think the Obama appearance was a huge mistake on his part. It basically said that Biden needed it, which he did not, and it sucked a great deal of the the mystique his acceptance concert has tried t build.
Bad form.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 11:05 pm
Lots more people watching on TV than in the audience.
Comment by Laura — 8/27/2008 @ 11:06 pm
Brad, how many people are in that arena versus those who will see this in video form. If you are suggesting that he was playing to the house in a YouTube world, then his future is questionable.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 11:09 pm
I’ll say this, five words:
Don’t. Fuck. With Joe Biden.
Since James and I have been in a good-hearted pissing match lately, I’ll reiterate once more what I said in July: there is simply no better VP candidate than Joe Biden. He brought his A game tonight.
I think the most powerful segment was actually the video, Beau, and then Biden talking about his family. It’s a shame he never got more oxygen this cycle—he and Dodd were my favorites besides Obama.
But his speech served the three functions he needed to fulfill perfectly. It introduced Joe Biden to America. I have a strong feeling that even those Hillary delegates who were upset that she wasn’t chosen were taken aback and forced to reconsider. Secondly, it made the case for Obama on grounds that Obama really can’t. “Obama was right and McCain was wrong”, that sort of thing. And third, it made the case that this is the ticket for adults. It was both idealistic and grounded, and robust without being blowhard (as McCain has been coming off of late). And it did all that without falling into any obvious traps.
I’d give it a solid A. The only thing that prevents it from being an A+ were the flubs (Biden is clearly not used to talking to an arena-level audience) and that he didn’t really turn the knife with McCain (and underplayed, if anything, both his tragic narrative and his son’s going to Iraq).
And I’ll add this. My mother—50s, Catholic, registered Republican, Midwestern girl all around—wasn’t going to watch, but I made her tune in right when it got to Beau. And within five minutes she had tears in her eyes, and by the end of it exhaled and said “Wow.” She’s been on the fence between McCain and Obama; I think this sealed it for her.
Finally, the convention is taking off. I disagree with James (hooray!), I think that between Bill and Biden, Obama just got a lot of pressure relieved. If things continued in the vein they were going in yesterday, it would have been all Obama to single-handedly turn things around. He’s got a bit of breathing room now.
Good night of for the Dems.
Comment by Brad — 8/27/2008 @ 11:11 pm
I find it amusing that the only real gaffe of the evening was perpetrated by Obama himself.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 11:11 pm
Given the big deal about Broncos stadium, Obama could have maintained the mystique by not actually walking in. If he really wanted to say something, a remote like he did with his wife would have been o.k., but I agree with James–it looked like Biden needed the confirmation, and Biden is the real quality of the two. And it stole the little bit of thunder that the VP candidate gets.
Comment by Laura — 8/27/2008 @ 11:12 pm
CNN is already ragging on Joe’s speech. I am not surprised since only best parts were his.
This whole thing is too orchestrated and the wrong way.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 11:14 pm
Laura and James: obviously, more people watching on TV, but I don’t think he did any harm with TV audiences (and don’t forget, the now-familiar convention-hall will be a radically new set piece tomorrow).
What’s more, his walk-on served two purposes. Don’t know if you caught it, but he immediately jumped on how good Biden’s speech was to jump on the “Hillary should have been VP” argument. He basically said “See?!”. And second, one GOP line of attack, the rock star celebrity thing, was going to be pushed hard tomorrow as they move to a stadium. Obama took the opportunity to cast it as a flinging open of the doors moment, which was smart. It would not have had the same effect if Obama was “beamed in”, or if Biden did it for him.
Trust me, my first instinct when he came on and took the mic was “Aw shit, this could go bad”, and I was watching for a sign that he was stepping on Biden. But he didn’t. He went from a reaffirmation of how smart it was to pick Biden, to an immediate parlay of potential attacks on the Invesco decision, and he kept it very short. It was a smart play, risky, but well executed.
Comment by Brad — 8/27/2008 @ 11:15 pm
Obama is micro-managing this. It smacks of youth.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 11:16 pm
I talked to my cousin’s husband who was sitting on the fence, and Biden just moved him into the Obama camp.
Comment by Liz — 8/27/2008 @ 11:16 pm
Youth has nothing to do with micro-managing. My most interfering bosses have been in their 50s.
Comment by Liz — 8/27/2008 @ 11:18 pm
And women.
Did I say that out loud?
Comment by Brad — 8/27/2008 @ 11:19 pm
Bite me:)
Old white dudes.
Comment by Liz — 8/27/2008 @ 11:21 pm
I’ll say this about the Obama walk-on: I think we were more holding our breathes that the idea of it was a bad idea than that it actually played badly.
I think it played just fine, and was a net plus, for the reasons I mentioned plus it was kind of fun (“Mama Biden”, come on).
It was definitely not without its risks, but it turned out fine, and as both Clinton supporters tomorrow are going to be a little out of breath trying to argue that Hillary should have been VP, and Republicans a little out of breath to note how having his speech in a football stadium is a sign that Obama is just a celebrity, and both Obama beaming in and Biden speaking on his behalf would have only increased the risk of him seeming aloof and “in his dressing room”, it was a smart play on Obama’s behalf, well executed.
Comment by Brad — 8/27/2008 @ 11:22 pm
Pretend you are Biden for a second, Brad. Would you still like him grabbing the mic?
You can get promoted in business, but if you leave footprints on people’s heads (esp. those with hair plugs) along the way, you can find your elevation supported by a scaffold of balsa wood. And that is business, where politics come into play. We are talking politics, where politics is like air.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 11:23 pm
You’re giving reasons why it could have been a problem.
I’m giving reasons why I don’t think it turned out that way.
Biden knew it was happening (obviously), and the 2 minute “let’s all head to Invesco” moment in no way stepped on the night itself, or Biden’s moment in particular. Do you think anybody is going to remember Obama’s walk-on over Biden’s speech?
Like I said, it was risky. I think it went fine.
Comment by Brad — 8/27/2008 @ 11:26 pm
Maturity is not measured chronologically, Liz. If it was, there would be no such thing a the WWF.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 11:27 pm
I’ll add this too: Obama put the punctuation on the notion that he “should have” chosen Hillary. Particularly live after last night, Obama came out and said “See?!”
If I’m Biden, I appreciate that.
Comment by Brad — 8/27/2008 @ 11:27 pm
The World Wildlife Fund is immature?
Comment by Rojas — 8/27/2008 @ 11:28 pm
Brad, I still think he stepped on Biden. If you watched the whole thing, by coming on, he forced Biden into the background. That’s the natural effect. And rather than just leaving, Obama started wandering along the edges of the stage, kissing Nancy Pelosi, etc. And what was Joe supposed to do? This was the time that the Bidens should have been celebrating their portion of the convention–instead, they’re standing around wondering what to do, and Biden is stuck kind of tagging along. I just think it was awkward, and most people might not notice it, but it’s indicative of someone who insists on being the center of attention.
Some of the best convention moments have happened when the nominees (or President) have simply “beamed in”–I think Monday night’s example was a good one, as Reagan’s remote appearance in to his wife’s speech in ‘84 was good.
Darned right we’re micro-managers–someone has to take care of the details.
Comment by Laura — 8/27/2008 @ 11:28 pm
Point taken, James.
But while maturity (or immaturity) has nothing to so with age, youth is measured chronologically. Just semantics though so not worth quibbling about.
Comment by Liz — 8/27/2008 @ 11:30 pm
Brad, I can’t say it WILL be a problem. I am saying that it COULD be a problem. My argument is that it was so unnecessary given the mood of the crowd, the hour, etc. It was a gilding of the lily. It is fine that he did it, but even Obama has a finite source of gold.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 11:30 pm
I’m saying it “could have been” a problem. On paper, it’s risky, and I’m sure they considered it very carefully (and with Biden).
I think you and Laura are overstating it. It had the potential to be a problem (and that was my first thought as well), but Obama made two quick points, one about how clearly awesome Biden is as a VP pick, the other, “let’s all head to Invesco”, and that was that. And both were points that really, only he could make, and only in person.
Joe Biden will sleep just fine tonight, I’m sure.
Comment by Brad — 8/27/2008 @ 11:34 pm
I like quibbling, Liz. What are you doing later?
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 11:36 pm
As long as Jill has his Ambien prescription along.
Comment by Laura — 8/27/2008 @ 11:38 pm
Jill or Cindy?
Comment by Brad — 8/27/2008 @ 11:40 pm
Quibblin most likely.
Comment by Liz — 8/27/2008 @ 11:41 pm
I think you are right in the short term, Brad. I just think that when you have flogged the pirates in the dhow you use to purloin a vessel laden with valuable cargo, you should sleep lightly.
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 11:41 pm
Or quibbling, Whichever.
Comment by Liz — 8/27/2008 @ 11:41 pm
Yes, yes it was McCain.
Comment by Brad — 8/27/2008 @ 11:41 pm
Jill Biden–so Joe can sleep well…
Comment by Laura — 8/27/2008 @ 11:42 pm
Thought you were referring to the story of McCain taking ambien regularly.
Comment by Brad — 8/27/2008 @ 11:43 pm
Har!
Comment by James — 8/27/2008 @ 11:43 pm
No–hadn’t even thought of that.
Comment by Laura — 8/27/2008 @ 11:44 pm
Wow. So much worry over Obama’s decision to appear on stage.
Seriously?
People who watched it have already forgotten…except for you dorks.
Comment by tessellated — 8/28/2008 @ 10:01 am