The Torture Test
Sully gets it right again. Rojas already tore the favorite torture straw man to shreds immediately following the debate (and here). It was good that torture was brought up and so starkly laid out at the last debate. But the framing of the question was ridiculous.
The question is “do you support the use of torture as routine military procedure, or don’t you?” The President does. Rudy Giuliani does. Mitt Romney apparently does (a surprise to me at the time). Everybody in the Republican field but Ron Paul and John McCain does. Ticking time bombs have not a whit to do with it.
What’s more, all the candidates damn well know that.
I am not one for absolutism, but here is a position that requires it. I can think of no better immediate disqualifier for the office of the President than one of the most fundamental violaters of the constitution, the foundational precepts of western liberalism and democracy, the efficacy of our persecution of the War on Terror, and indeed the basest level of ethics that most would judge to be a precondition to being a human being in the moral sense of it at all.
As I’ve said before, I can think of no more basic and fundamental litmus test. If you’re wrong on this, I don’t need to hear anything else.
Time to take it to the Democratic debate next.
I agree with you 100% on this issue, Brad. I do have one question, which is probably reflective of my ignorance, though: how exactly does torture used by the military violate the Constitution? I was under the impression that cruel and unusual punishment applied to domestic law enforcement.
Don’t get me wrong, I find it to be morally disgusting and likely counterproductive to any theoretical objective, but I don’t see where it is inherently unconstitutional.
Comment by Talarohk — 5/19/2007 @ 10:40 pm
VIII: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Bear in mind that a number of those who are tortured are American citizens, and hence protected by the eighth amendment against torture by ANY agent of the government.
Additionally, the Presidential Oath of Office requires the President to uphold all of the laws of the land. That would include the treaties to which we are signatories, Geneva included.
Comment by Rojas — 5/19/2007 @ 10:53 pm
Well, for anyone who thought McCain had any shred of consistency or coherence left, watch the latest episode of NBC’s Meet the Press, in which Tim Russert expertly filets McCain. It’s brutal. Russert is a genius.
Comment by weltschmerz — 5/19/2007 @ 10:53 pm
Giuliani says we need things like the Patriot Act, and electronic surveillance…and he’d probably have added “torture” too.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8QCeFoB9KUY
Comment by weltschmerz — 5/19/2007 @ 11:07 pm
Rojas nailed the answer.
Comment by Brad — 5/19/2007 @ 11:38 pm